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Sep

2009

The Word “Panic” Ain’t Even In Charlie Manuel’s Vocabulary

Posted by meech.one at 8:22 am ET 38 Comments

While half of Philadelphia was re-telling their sad sack tales from 1964 almost like they want the Phillies to collapse, there was one guy in the Phillies locker room who didn’t waver in the least.

That man is Uncle Cholly. Sam Donnellon of The Inqy supplies the quotes:

“You won’t see me panicking. I’ve been in the game a long time. I love everything about the game. Getting slapped, getting knocked down and losing, and everything like that. That’s all part of getting up, and that’s all part of doing it, and that’s all part of getting a good life in it.

You’ve got to be tough; you’ve got to be mentally tough. That’s one thing we’ve got in common in Philadelphia. They always say that I’m mentally tough. And how tough they are.

Well then I belong here then.”

Cot damn right you do, Charlie.

Let that be a lesson to all you non-believers out there who feel like jumping ship at the first inkling of trouble. Although YOU may be nervous in the ninth inning of a close game, the fella managing this team has frickin’ ice water running through his veins.

Everything is under control.

Photo: Flickr/pvsbond

38 Comments on “The Word “Panic” Ain’t Even In Charlie Manuel’s Vocabulary”

James Fayleez Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Is it possible that I was first?
stealth Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Wow! what a turn around from two nights ago. I Already had my finger touching the panic button. I hope Pedro comes out on fire and our bats are swinging. Tonights the night we do this I feel..after all thats what Harry the K would have said. R.I.P. miss you guy.
Pasadena_Phan Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 9:08 am
Wiser words have yet to be spoken.
Kevin M Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 9:20 am
Jst love Charlie Manuel more and more every day.
will.H Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 9:21 am
i always loved that guy. hes perfect
Jdashdog Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 9:29 am
Talkin to you, Phylan
River Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 9:47 am
someone please send this post to that fat boob angelo cataldi. never have i wanted to reach through my radio and strangle someone more than this morning.
Reverend Paul Revere Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Where’s the tard?
Matt P. Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 9:59 am
I don’t see this as an occasion to insult the man’s vocabulary, Meech.
GenericFanGroup Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Angelo actually talked about the Phillies? How is that possible between blowing the Eagles (except Mcnabb) and having that painted face Dawkins fan on crying about how he misses Weapon X…yuck
Jdashdog Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:12 am
@River, usually I just take him with a grain of salt but I couldn’t even listen this morning. He was unbearable.
gm-carson Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Chuck is a stone cold old school gangsta, of course he doesn’t panic. Wish I could say the same about myself.
T-Mac Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Charlie Manuel is now endorsing Nutrisystem. I have my respect for a man who knows how to mix business and baseball. And don’t forget your Citizens Bank Park green facts!!
Tartan69 Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:43 am
IMHO, most of WIP is unbearable. But especially Cataldi. And Eskin.
Heathcliff Slocumb Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Since this thread is about our dear skipper, I want to do an experiment. It’s called playing manager. Arguments about Lidge and Madson have gone rampant on other threads. I’m hoping this might put it to rest (relatively, at least). I’m going to present the facts. You all will vote on which pitcher you would put in to close put the game (please no guesses on who’s who, or trying to figure it out, etc., as obvious as it might be to some). These stats are based on September 2009 pitching performances.

Pitcher A:

6 saves in 7 opportunities (3 w/ 1 run lead, 1 w/ 2 run lead, 2 w/ 3 run lead, 1 BS on 1 run lead)
8 IP
10 H
3 Extra base hits (1 HR, 2 2B)
6 K, 0 BB, 1 HBP
4.50 ERA

Pitcher B:

4 saves in 6 opportunities (1 w/ 1 run lead, 3 with 3 run lead, 2 BS on 1 run lead)
6 1/3 IP
11 H
3 Extra base hits (1 2B, 2 3B)
7 K, 5 BB, 2 HBP
11.37 ERA

Your the manager. It’s the deciding game of a playoff series. Who are you bringing into the game in the 9th?
Heathcliff Slocumb Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Oh, I left something out:

Pitcher A – 4 runs, all earned

Pitcher B – 8 runs, all earned
Jdashdog Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:57 am
I would let pitcher A get the first 2 outs and bring in Brad Lidge…err I mean pitcher B to get the final out.
Heathcliff Slocumb Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 11:06 am
damnit jdash
Heathcliff Slocumb Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 11:07 am
That took some work, and you go player spoiler. What the hell. Either way, those are the facts. I’m not trying to sway either way, but the numbers speak for themselves.
Heathcliff Slocumb Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Not like it was really a secret, but still…
Jdashdog Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 11:09 am
I’m sorry, pal. That was inappropriate of me.
Heathcliff Slocumb Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Also Note: the ERAs presented are *only* in save opportunities. Pitcher A has a muuuuuch lower ERA in September overall.
Heathcliff Slocumb Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 11:10 am
::shakes fist like guy in picture of previous thread::
Heathcliff Slocumb Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Now I want a poster from dlhunter with the text “Heathcliff is Angry”
James Fayleez Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Heathcliff,

This why you and Wheels are a numbers geeks and Pop-Pop is the manager of the Phillies. He goes with however the game is going, how the pitcher has looked to him and makes a decision.

What happens during the first outing of a major league player? There are no numbers to cite. Do you sit in a corner until some numbers on a player is available?
Phylan Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Ohhh OK sorry I missed the bit about save opportunities
Phylan Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Hey Fayleez I hate to break it to you but “numbers geeks” rule the front offices of every good baseball organization because they have consistent, repeated success in identifying talent in the major and minor leagues. Players making their ML debut have been called up because of the numbers they put up in the minor leagues, combined with a thorough scouting of their tools/polish. It’s the worship of the whole “gut feeling” thing in managers that leads to things like Charlie getting a pass for running Lidge out there over and over like he was betting on Phils opponents.
Heathcliff Slocumb Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
What Phylan said.

If numbers don’t matter, then this ain’t baseball we’re talkin’ about here…
Heathcliff Slocumb Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Also, Fayleez, the reason I tracked these numbers down is because I had a gut feeling about who I wanted to see closing games in October. But I wanted to substantiate that gut feeling with the facts.

My gut feeling was for pitcher A, and I feel even more confident in that feeling now that I see the numbers.
Watrick Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
As much as I like the idea of gut feelings and knowing your players, you do know that Uncle Cholly has a book full of stats, right? Dubee too. These guys may have gut feelings, but they also know who matches up well with whom. It’s part of the hypothesis of what might happen. They can take the information and pull a “He’s due” mentality, or a, “whoa, that hasn’t been working when we switch him around to the left side of the plate.”
It’s about knowing as much as you can about your players and how they stack up against the other team.
Heathcliff Slocumb Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
And all of this leaves out the sports psychology side of things. One pitcher is clearly having mental issues in the game, the other is not. There was a point, too, where those mental issues were clearly starting to spike the confidence of opposing hitters, thus rendering pitches even less effective. That point, I believe, was in Pittsburgh.
James Fayleez Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
But what about the players that go against the numbers?

If Howard is terrible against a LHP, do you sit him because the numbers tell you to?
If Madson is your best option as a clsoer right now, but the numbers on a certain guy say differently, do you bring in Turbin or Condrey?

It’s not always the numbers.
Heathcliff Slocumb Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
The difference is that I’m talking about overall performance in a specified time frame, not isolated match-up accounts. I’m not running any *Numbers* on this one, but I think isolated match-ups going against the numbers is more likely than long-term performance doing the same.

They’re two different types of data to base decisions on, and are no more comparable than a stop sign and a red light.

When it comes down to it, I’m really not a “numbers” guy at all — in fact, I’m the exact opposite. I favor hunches, gut feelings, etc. But that can only take you to a point. Once the numbers start brutally beating the crap out of your gut feeling, it’s time to trust what’s on paper.

Again, numbers really do mean everything in baseball in so many ways. For example if Brad Lidge were a free agent right now, after what he’s done thus far, do you think he would garner a high salary because his agent has a “gut feeling” he’d bounce back. I don’t think so. He would only get signed at all, to a much lower salary, because someone has a gut feeling about him (really, it was a gut feeling on Gillick’s part that brought Lidge here in the first place).

I’m not saying don’t trust your baseball instinct, I’m just saying the facts presented over a substantial period of time speak for themselves. And they speak very, very loudly.
Heathcliff Slocumb Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
I’ll also note, just for fun, that it was gut feelings and not trusting the numbers that resulted in game 5 of the World Series being started when it never should have been.

Thanks Bud Selig.

Yeah, we won, but still. It did result in Hamels not getting the record.

So yeah.
Phylan Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
You don’t sit Howard against LHP because his production even in unfavorable matchups outstrips that which you could get from a backup. I don’t know what you mean by “numbers on a certain guy”

I guess I should say that most managers in the ML these days a) rely on the wrong numbers to begin with, in a lot of cases and b) over-manage with respect to pitcher/hitter matchups.

All of that being said, baseball talent evaluation and strategy is most effective when based on a mix of thorough, objective scouting, and persistent, near-obsessive analysis of the available statistics. Baseball, more than any other sport, can be quantified in various ways because the starting point is always the one-on-one, pitcher versus hitter contest, and things progress from there. Obviously not everything can be quantified well – there have been some admirable attempts at the perfect defensive stat, but it has yet to come.

People love to say “stats don’t tell the whole story,” and that’s true – pro-caliber scouting is vital. But stats, when the correct ones are considered, and properly contextualized, can tell MOST of the story.
BigMiles Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
@gm-carson….please don’t use Charlie Manuel and gangsta in the same sentence. That’s Jerry Manuel’s term and we know how successful of a manager he is.

And really there isn’t much of an argument about stats. Stats or no stats you can tell who is pitching better or swinging the bat better at a specific time. But at the same time it’s always nice to see trends that you see in stats because they aid decisions. It’s a mix of both, which everyone seems to be saying, so I don’t know what there is to discuss.
James Fayleez Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
I think I agree more with what BigMiles is saying.

But my point is….too many numbers spoil the broth.
Phylan Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
The whole reason you need stats is because your eyes deceive you, all of the time. Just ask a lawyer how reliable eyewitness accounts are. With phenomenon like confirmation bias and the burden of a very imperfect memory, you can build a lot of straight up wrong perceptions of a player without knowing the numbers.