So with all the craziness going on last July about the Phillies possibly acquiring Roy Halladay, and then ultimately nabbing Clifton Phifer Lee, one can be certain there were many things we didn’t know about the whole situation. The Toronto Sun posted an article entitled “The Anatomy of the Doc deal” which basically goes through a timeline and gives tidbits of information most of us had not heard. While I must say that looking at this article a lot seems to be conjecture, but I did see this one quote that could be put in the “Oh No She Di’int” category by some. Here is said quote:
Dec. 17: Philadelphia
The Phillies introduce Halladay and give him No. 34, the same uniform Lee wore.
“That should have been ours in July,” Halladay’s wife Brandy jokes to reporters.
Rather bold of Mrs. Halladay don’t you think?
I happen to be one who does miss Clifton and listening to those post trade interviews really made me feel sick to my stomach, but getting the best pitcher in baseball definitely offset those feelings. This stance being opposed by those who can’t look past what would have been with a Halladay, Lee, Hamels, 1-2-3 punch. Now I really don’t want to open that argument all over again, what I want to know is do we look at this quote as the best pitcher in the game and his wife wanting so badly to be in Philadelphia, or do you think the comment was a little out of line considering how upset Lee was to be traded?
131 Comments on “Oh No She Di’int…”
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December 26th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
hey… hey chris… thanks.
and i find this to be a serious compliment. me and lady halladay would so be besties. yeah i said besties what are you gonna do about it?
December 26th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
It’s OK, I said tidbits. Mine is probably worse.
December 26th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
yeah besties is just lame, tidbits is a little gay. not that there’s anything wrong with that.
December 26th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
The comments by Mrs. Halladay didn’t really rub me the wrong way, though I thought they may for others. I think she was just making a joke about a situation that didn’t happen when they wanted it to. If any disrespect was intended, I have a feeling it was for J.P. Riccardi and not Cliff Lee or the new team her husband pitches for.
December 26th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Tidbits sounds a lot like Timbits. I bet Roy and wife know about Timbits
December 26th, 2009 at 11:55 pm
At least I know that i’m not the only one who didn’t like that comment by Mrs. Halladay. Seemed too much like a jab to Lee for my liking…
December 26th, 2009 at 11:55 pm
I just want to know what Eric and bigmyc have to say about this.
December 27th, 2009 at 12:04 am
bigmyc=eaton
eric=bruntlett.
December 27th, 2009 at 12:11 am
I really doubt she knew Lee wore #34, and there is no way she meant anything more than “I wanted Roy to be a Phillie last July.” I don’t see how it could be construed as a shot at Cliff Lee.
December 27th, 2009 at 12:12 am
Mmmm…Timbits.
December 27th, 2009 at 12:59 am
yep, this pissed me off as well when i read it. she kind of seems like a real snotty nose picking bitch. i sure hope this halladay fellow can pitch
December 27th, 2009 at 1:04 am
I think it was more of Halladay wanting to be a Phillie in July and less of a shot at Lee. It sounds harmless.
December 27th, 2009 at 1:12 am
Awwwwwwww…. Cliff Lee
:(
December 27th, 2009 at 1:18 am
Also when is the “I hope Halladay is a great pitcher” as if it’s not already a foregone conclusion stuff going to stop
December 27th, 2009 at 1:30 am
How quickly we forget that everybody wanted Halladay in July. Cliff Lee wasn’t even on the radar. He’s a great pitcher, and we’re lucky to have either pitcher (who both want to be here!).
December 27th, 2009 at 1:35 am
Now now, I know we all miss Clifton very much but it’s true. Ruben wanted him badly, they wanted to come here and it was all the stubborn Blue Jay’s GM fault. Cliff’s performance won’t be forgotten and don’t worry I’m sure we’ll all get to watch him pitch for presumably the Yankees in 2011. BLEH!
December 27th, 2009 at 1:38 am
plus I’m pretty sure everyone on this board picks their nose.
December 27th, 2009 at 1:53 am
yay new content! kind of…
December 27th, 2009 at 1:54 am
I love this quote, mostly because of how it compares to all of the crap from the old days about players hating the idea of playing in Philly. Now we have players (and their families) who feel this strongly about wanting to play in Philly. It’s an awesome feeling.
December 27th, 2009 at 2:12 am
Sure it’s harmless. But let’s over analyze everything!!!
December 27th, 2009 at 2:44 am
anyone else stil awake? please say yes.
December 27th, 2009 at 2:48 am
Yes.
December 27th, 2009 at 2:49 am
(taps on Sara’s window)
December 27th, 2009 at 5:36 am
yes i’m still awake. Not like I ever sleep anyway!
Kinda funny how before we got Halladay, I was saying “I freaking pray he isn’t going to the Yankees” and now i’m saying the same thing about Lee “please don’t sign with the freaking Yankees!”
in a perfect world, the Phillies will find a way to sign Lee back as a free agent or something.
December 27th, 2009 at 5:38 am
And yes, everyone with brains knows that Halladay is the better and more consistent pitcher, but that won’t stop many of us from missing Lee as well.
I can’t wait till spring training to watch Halladay in action for the Phils, and also to see if Hamels can get his crap back together.
December 27th, 2009 at 8:43 am
Even better, after only a few moments of Sixers basketball, Brandy is already holding her nose.
December 27th, 2009 at 9:21 am
to be honest, its good this writer has a bit of common sense to insist she was ‘joking,’ rather than display the quote without any type of context– which usually gets people in trouble. I like her.. i think she’ll fit in quite nicely.
December 27th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Lee was the right person for the clubhouse, and one hell of a pitcher. I am going to miss Cliff myself and fear that we will regret this move. And as for Halladay and his wife….he is the best, and she has brass ones…which means she should fit in quite well.
December 27th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
I know Roy can’t hit with runners in scoring position, so he sucks.
December 27th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
I have a Nader ‘00 bumper sticker on my car.
December 27th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
She was scratching an itch, for crying out loud!
December 27th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
I’m not so sure that Cliff was “the right person for the clubhouse,” given his insistence on testing the free market.
As the ‘10 season wore on, that could prove to be a nightmare for the clubhouse, as sportswriters peppered him with questions about free agency — as I’m sure they would.
December 27th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Umm, I must have too much eggnog, as I obviously meant “free agency,” not “free market.”
December 27th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Oh boy…still talking about Clifford I see. First, how does anyone know that Cliff was “the right person for the clubhouse”. Were you in the clubhouse? Did you speak with the players? What is this based off of? Unless you’re privy to actually being in the clubhouse this is nothing more than pure, unsubstantiated speculation. Second, what’s so bad about her comment. Seriously, Cliff pitched amazingly but the way some so-called Phillies fans are swinging off his nuts is silly. If you don’t like the Lee trade then fine. But to rip apart Halladay (a guy who wanted to be here and made it LOUD & CLEAR) and his wife because your’re upset that Saint Clifford was shipped off is immature.
December 27th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Eaton? How dare you?
Sara, it is plainly clear that you don’t know what you are talking about. Do you even know that this is a site about baseball? When called upon to do so, I usually put forth fairly cogent sentiments regarding America’s grand past time. In addition, most of my comments contain a decent amount of heart and resolve.
Content. Desire. Resolve.
Now, which one of these things did Adam Eaton ever embody in his Phillies tenure?
How ’bout none of them. There’s your answer.
Now, go back to admiring your Chinese Character Tattoos…yeah, that’s right, the ones that you have no idea what they mean.
December 27th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
aaaaaassssssssssssshooooooooolllllleeeeee.
December 27th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
I understand why you would post this, but it clearly has absolutely nothing to do Lee. Her comment was just letting out some frustration at the Blue Jays organization for not trading him when he wanted to be traded.
December 27th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Since it was a lateral move, trading Aces it doesn’t matter! He’s used to being the only good pitcher on a nothing team, nothings changed.
December 27th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
You’re the one who wondered aloud what I thought…
December 27th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
I am woefully and completely unsure of my sexuality.
December 27th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
I’mma miss Cliff, which makes me like these comments less than I would otherwise, but I do think that she’s just expressing her frustration with not being here in July.
December 27th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Oh look, it’s this thread again.
Anybody got any Phillies-related .gif ideas?
I’ll take requests. Make it outlandish, I’ve got spare time.
bigboxachili [at] gmail [dot] com
December 27th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Everyone with a mancrush so big on Lee that they can’t be EXCITED about getting the best pitcher in baseball, go follow Seattle. Meanwhile I’ll watch the best team in the league with players who show with actions (not empty words) that they want to be here.
December 27th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
Joe is wise.
December 27th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
If Ruben Amaro was such a deal maker, why didn’t he keep Lee with Halladay? That would’ve been the blockbuster trade. All he did was get Halladay and trade LEE, YAWN!
December 27th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
I loved cliff lee the way he pitched here for the phillies, but does anyone really believe he thought he was going be here for the rest of his career? No pity party for Lee!!! He will get paid 20 million to do a job every five days…..for half a year! I don’t feel bad for him! Your thoughts????
December 27th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
It’s not that we feel bad for Lee financially, it’s just that many of us took a liking to the way he pitched, and because he seemed genuinely crushed to be traded when he did. There are some players who spend a decade or more with the Phillies and never really catch on, and then you have a guy like Lee that seemed to catch on from his first start here, despite being here only a few short months. Would I take him over Halladay? No, but I do wish he had at least been able to leave here on a better note.
December 27th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
I like Cliff Lee. I like watching Cliff Lee pitch. I like the rhythm he brings to the mound, and he was one helluva pitcher in the playoffs last year.
That being said, we are getting ROY FUCKING HALLADAY. As in, THE BEST FUCKING PITCHER IN BASEBALL. And we get to keep him for at least the next 4 years at a price below market value! Moreover, while our farm system took a little bit of a hit, the players we got in exchange for Lee will help to form a future core.
Don’t be stupid. Amaro knows what he’s doing, and these moves were excellent.
ROY FUCKING HALLADAY!!!!
December 27th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
I seriously love Ralph Nadar!
and I agree with Phylan yet again, comment #9 is spot on.
December 27th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
20 million a year isn’t below market, IT’S MARKET. He was already making 15.7 WITH NO POSTSEASON EXPERIENCE AT ALL!
December 27th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
Has anyone bothered to hear Mrs. Cliff Lee’s opinion on the matter? Huh? Well, anyone?
December 27th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Yea, bigmyc is correct. Wait, no, no, that can’t be right.
December 27th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Cliff Lee brought Philly a WS, how quickly you forget. He was the only pitcher in the WS that fought!
December 27th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
I have no doubt that Amaro knows what he’s doing, but just like Gillick before him…we are probably not going to like some of the deals WHEN THEY HAPPEN, but many things begin to look much better when time has passed. Amaro is a very ballsy GM, and that’s one thing that I feel is a huge plus. That and he clearly is very intelligent, but I still wish Lee got to at least stay until mid-season. Amaro did the right thing, but people don’t always like what the “right thing” is.
December 27th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
And to clarify: I AM OVERJOYED that we landed Halladay, it’s just that many fans never expected it’d be at the cost of Lee. Once Spring Training starts and we see Hamels regaining his form as an excellent #2 pitcher, I am sure that it will put a lot of fans fears at ease. And also I wouldn’t count out J.A Happ just yet either, even if you think he only had “rookie luck” or whatever. He demonstrated a lot of talent last season, and if he’s even NEAR that good this season, then we have ourselves a pretty damn solid 1-4 rotation, including the always solid(if nothing special) Joe Blanton.
December 27th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
I’m even more excited for this season to start than I was for the last one…
December 27th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
@get it right please!, we also won a World Series without him. Who’s to say that Roy Halladay wouldn’t have done the same thing? I loved Cliff Lee but he was here for 3 months. Roy Halladay will be here for at least 4.
December 27th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
@GVCCV 1 year under $9M (after you take off the $6M coming back from Toronto) and 3 years at $20M is WAY below market for Halladay. Look at what the Yanks paid for Sabathia, who also had no playoff experience. Look at what the Mets paid for Santana, who had a little playoff experience, some of it negative. Halladay is better than both of these pitchers. Look at what he has done against the AL East!
On the open market, Halladay would be looking at something in the ballpark of $23M per year. He’d also be able to get at least 5 years from a team like the Yankees or the Red Sox. So the Phils are paying $75M guaranteed ($69M, if you take off the $6M from Toronto) for a pitcher who could easily get $115M for 5 years from another club on the open market. I can even imagine one of these big spenders putting out a 6-year deal. Halladay is that good.
The point is that the Phils’ deal is well below what they’d pay on the open market to get Roy Halladay. It was a brilliant move by Amaro.
December 27th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
I can’t believe nobody called SmartPhan out for writing a nice long post about some guy named Clifford. I don’t know of anyone named Clifford on last year’s team.
December 28th, 2009 at 12:41 am
dlhunter Says:
December 27th, 2009 at 2:49 am
(taps on Sara’s window)
Like Omar from the Wire?
December 28th, 2009 at 12:41 am
Is she gold-digging in that photo?
December 28th, 2009 at 1:20 am
@Gonzo
Someone gets the reference.
December 28th, 2009 at 2:17 am
God I suck at blogging.
December 28th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
-Mike P Dec 27 th 11:32 PM
2007 Indians were Paul Byrd, Cliff Lee, CC Sabathia and Fausto Carmona POSTSEASON division play. CC had seen postseason, it was the Indians vs Yankees. Remember the midgee’s attacked the Yankees on the field, they loved Joba, Torre was riducled for not removing his team from the field ? That was the 1st round division play,Indians won and moved to the ALCS vs Boston .
Halladay hasn’t ever experienced division playoff, Jays are always terrible. Last season with Halladay, they finished 28 games out of 1st. Halladay comes this 1st yr with 6mm from the Jays. He made 15.75mm, that’s not less than 9mm, it leaves 9.75mm for next season that the Phillies will pay.
According to http://www.mlbcontracts.blogspot.com Halladay is 3 yrs 60mm, 2011-2013, plus 2014 option. He will in 2011 and onward be making 20mm per year.
AGAIN 20MM per year isn’t below market IT IS IN THE MARKET!!
Your post says 3 @ 20MM, unless you add per year, you’re wrong, LOOK IT UP on the link I provided above!!
December 28th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
fuck the redskins
December 28th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
GVCCV- First of all I don’t know entirely what you are talking about, but you are unfortunately wrong when you say that 20 million is in the market for premier starters. I mean, it is in the market if you consider an extra 3 million a year to be in the market, but I do not. Sure Doc is older, but CC is making 23 large a year until 2015. That means he has more guaranteed years and makes an extra 3 million a year over Doc for those years. And on top of that, I would rather face CC over Doc any day of the week.
December 28th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
BigMILES
Halladay wanted out of the Jays so badly he sold himself a little short. But starting in 2011- he went from 15.75mm per year to 20mm per year. If he were a free agent he could get more, but he couldn’t wait. 20MM is still a great pay no matter how you add it up.y
If he were to come midway his contract to the Yankees, Cashman wouldn’t give up money and prospects, and a new contract. Even Boras said this is too costly for any team. The Jays were foolish to send prospects and money for a Halladay trade (One of the best pitchers in the game) They should’ve received a boatload for Halladay. Halladay is getting after next year a raise per year and he’s worth every penny.
Yankees and Boston beat Doc year last seasoni, he doesn’t scare his old divisiond by the way, FYI!!
The NL will fear him for sure. Halladay vs Pujols should be great!
December 28th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I just can’t believe the Jays paid the Phillies to take Halladay.
They wanted from the Yankees Phil Hughes,Joba Chamberlain,MELKY ,Austin Jackson,Jesus Montero, and prospects, and send no money with Halladay. Smartly Cashman said Cya!!
From Boston they wanted Ellsbury, Buchhuloz, Bard,Bowen and a boat load of prospects, they wisely said no too.
Jays told Yankees and Boston THAT THEY WANTED MAJOR LEAGUE Ready plays to fill holes now. That’s not what they got.
December 28th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Happy Trails Eric Bruntlett….signs a Minor League deal with the Nationals.
December 28th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Beardo will always hold a special place in my heart. Turned a 4-U Triple Play and scored the winning run in games 3 and 5 of the World Series.
December 28th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Can’t help but wish Bruntlett all the best. He mostly sucked, but he did come through in a few key moments.
December 28th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
I totally did Eric Bruntlett.
He called me his ‘muse’.
December 28th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
If Beardlett can’t make the Nads then I will feel bad for him. I don’t see him having much value on a team with a lot of young talent that they want to try out at the major league level though.
December 28th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Brunt made quite a career out of almost no talent. That’s pretty fucking impressive to me.
December 28th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Goodbye my beardo friend. You will be missed. You should be able to get ample playing time with the ‘Nats. They suck.
December 28th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
i’m bored. yes i use these comment threads to ease my boredom/inability to sleep and refuse to actually argue baseball, got a problem with it? i believe thefightins’ tagline is “phillies news that has little to do with baseball” and i’m in full offseason mode. deal with it.
December 28th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Quite the contrary, Sara. Everything is baseball on this site. You would think they would throw some Eagles stuff on here because it’s the off season and he would get thousands of clicks per day. But Meech didn’t sell out.
December 28th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Yea once you add Eagles or other teams this is no longer a Phillies site; its becomes a Philly Sports site.
Then all of the clear, precise, coherent, significant, and thoughtful Phillies’ news reporting backed up by equally concise, learned, factual, passionate, and meaningful comments would be drowned out by 1 or more of the following every 10 minutes or so:
Chad 85 Ochocinco
Tony Romo sucks Homo Rollo
Pictorials of the broads Tiger has double eagled. (Not a bad addition; see HDYSR? posts)
Football, Concussions, and You: Your Guide to NO SHIT it is Gonna Happen a lot.
Stay strong Meech. Baseball off-season is short enough for me to hold out until spring.
December 28th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
RUNNERS IN SCORING POSITION
December 28th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
WHY IS ERIC YELLING?
December 28th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
we should bring ron gant back as a righty off the bench
December 28th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
WHY DO I HAVE THE UNCONTROLLABLE NEED TO PEE SITTING DOWN?
December 28th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Eric “the Brunt” Bruntlett close to being with the Nats. too bad it’s a minor league offer.
December 28th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Eric Bruntlett finally gets a chance to help the Phillies, by dragging down an already terrible Nationals team!
December 28th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
@GVCCV
Pardon me, I misspoke about Sabathia. Yes, he did have playoff experience. In 2001, he started 1 game, pitching 6 innings and giving up 2 runs. But then the wheels fell off the bus. In 2007, he started 3 games, with 15.1 IP and an AWFUL 8.80 ERA. In 2008, we saw Sabathia’s only pitching performance first hand: 3.2 IP with a ridiculous 12.27 ERA. So it’s not that the Yankees paid $23M/year for a pitcher with no playoff experience… They paid $23M for a pitcher with a horrible postseason record!
I was very specific in my post about Halladay’s contract, and I think you’re somewhat confused. The Phils are paying $9M out of the $15M he’s due in 2010. I noted that the next 3 years will be at $20M per year. There is an option for one more year, but in order for the option to trigger, he has to pitch 225 innings in 2013 (415 IP in 2012-2013) and he can’t be on the disabled list at the end of the season. 225 IP, for the record, is generally within his production levels of the past couple of years, but only 3 pitchers in the NL (Wainwright, Haren, Lincecum) accomplished this feat last year. In other words, to trigger the option, he would have to continue as one of the most durable and most productive (as no pitcher would hit that mark without tossing a nice fat pile of complete games) pitchers in the game.
I don’t think that the option will trigger (if he’s still this productive in 4 years, I won’t complain, but it would be a feat) but for the sake of argument, let’s say that it does. Still, Halladay would be getting $89M from the Phillies’ pockets ($95M if you take out the $6M the Jays are adding) over 5 years! Compare this to the 5 years/$115M or even 6 years/$138 that he could get on the open market. That is a RIDICULOUS deal! The Phils will get Halladay for the end stretch of his prime, and they’re paying significantly less than they would if he went to free agency next year.
If you don’t think that the Yanks and Sox fear Halladay, you need to go back and read what their players have said about him. For the record, last year against the Yanks, he went 3-1 with a 2.70 ERA. Against the Sox, he went 2-2 with a 2.79. With a little more run support, he would have had perfect records against those teams. I repeat: BEST. PITCHER. IN. BASEBALL. ON. THE. CHEAP.
December 28th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
who let the suit in?
December 28th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
The Phillies are a terribly run sports franchise, and this off season is a perfect example. Not only is Roy Halladay one of the most over-rated pitchers in recent memory, but Cliff Lee…already a guy that I wasn’t too big a fan of was traded to make room for somebody even less talented!
With a team full of marginally talented players like these, it must be a miracle or fluke that they have won 2 National League championships in a row, and that’s either due to either an extreme amount of luck, or speaks for what a terrible state the NL is in right now.
Be right back, have to film another Burger King Commercial.
December 28th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Yo Howard, I love your show and everything but your a fucking douchebag!
Go back to scooping me my fries at Burger King, and let the Baseball players do their job!
December 29th, 2009 at 12:29 am
Hey guys…………………….. GO PHILLIES
December 29th, 2009 at 12:30 am
eskin would be tolerable if he engaged in real sports commentary rather than bullying retards that call in
December 29th, 2009 at 12:52 am
mike p
If you still think 20mm per year is cheap in the middle of a recession, WHATEVER FLOATS YOUR BOAT!
December 29th, 2009 at 12:55 am
All baseball salaries are outrageous. In the context of baseball and in regards to his talent, the deal the Phillies got for Roy Halladay is a bargain.
December 29th, 2009 at 1:01 am
@GVCCV The question is, as a Phillies fan, do you want the team to have an ace pitcher beyond 2010? If so, you should love this deal. The Phils wouldn’t have been able to afford ether Lee or Halladay next offseason. Both would receive 5-6 year contacts at well over $20M per year from the Yankees or the Red Sox, pricing the Phils out of the market. And yes, $69M over 4 years or $89M over 5 years is dirt cheap for Roy Halladay.
December 29th, 2009 at 1:04 am
mike p
stop using the word cheap, you’re talking about millionaires.20mm a year AIN’T CHEAP.
December 29th, 2009 at 1:07 am
MIKE P
AT 32 HE WASN’T GOING TO GET A 5-6 YRS DEAL. YANKEES WOULD’VE OFFERED 3 YRS,and OPTIONS yrs WITH INCENTIVES, because he will be 33 next year.
December 29th, 2009 at 1:09 am
To normal people like you and I, $20 million obviously isn’t cheap, but in the world of Baseball and it’s outragous contracts, $20 Million IS considered a great bargain for a pitcher of Roy’s caliber
December 29th, 2009 at 1:13 am
Also, need I remind you that Curt Schilling continued to dominate in his late 30’s and early 40’s, and who’s to say Roy couldn’t do it as well?
December 29th, 2009 at 1:13 am
mike p
Yankees pay what they think a player is worth. Damon was at 13mm per year, they offered him 2 yrs for 14mm,he turned it down . Boras or Damon misread the mkt, so Damon is out. next!
December 29th, 2009 at 1:13 am
@GVCCV I’m not suggesting that baseball players are underpaid. C’mon, read the post. All I’m saying is that if you want the Phils to have an ace pitcher, the Halladay deal is a ridiculous bargain. If he were to go on the open market, he’d get much more money from Boston or New York, pricing the Phils out of the market and leaving them without an ace pitcher. This way, they bring in an ace and remain the favorites to win the NL pennant for the foreseeable future.
December 29th, 2009 at 1:16 am
@GVCCV They Yanks didn’t offer Damon a ridiculous contract because he’s not worth that kind of money. He’s still solid at the plate, but he’s horrible in the outfield. He no longer has great range, and his arm is horrible. No one is going to offer him that kind of money. Halladay, however, is the best pitcher in baseball. They would have offered 5-6 years, and the money would have been over $20M per year.
December 29th, 2009 at 1:22 am
No one said Roy couldn’t, it’s just that you don’t sign them that long past prime, you go yearly.Andy Pettittet the all time wins leader in postseason is 37 yrs. Yankees sign him yearly loaded with incentives.
I have nothing bad to say about Roy. He’s starting in 2011 getting a raise and it’s well deserved.
You disrespect him by using the word CHEAP. He gave the Phillies a discount, because he knows his worth.
December 29th, 2009 at 1:25 am
m ike p
My point exactly they PAY PLAYERS WHAT THE THINK they’re worth. The Yankees made over 100 million this year they can afford it.
December 29th, 2009 at 1:42 am
@GVCCV It might be your point that the Yanks pay players what they’re worth, but you’re undervaluing Halladay. If you doubt this, just look at the endless line of posts on mlbtraderumors from Yankees fans, who put Halladay ahead of Sabathia when listing what their rotation would look like after a trade for Halladay.
I’m not disrespecting Halladay by suggesting that the deal was a bargain; he signed it to get out of Toronto and to a contender ASAP. If anything, you’re disrespecting Halladay by suggesting that the best pitcher in baseball is only deserving of short-term deals. Andy Pettitte is a decent starter, but you can’t sit there and compare a MOR starter at the end of his career to the best pitcher in baseball in his prime. That’s like comparing apples and oranges.
By the way, if you’re going to call Halladay 33, you might as well call Pettitte 38. Their birthdays are only a month apart.
December 29th, 2009 at 8:32 am
DING DING! FIGHT!
December 29th, 2009 at 10:17 am
mike p
I would NEVER be stupid enough to undervalue Holliday. I’ve been screaming to you to STOP using the wording got him Cheap. Because he gave the Phillies a break, and signed for less than CC’s 23mm,doesn’t mean he’s a cheap bargain (disrespectful) or under valued.
This year’s market isn’t yielding last years. i. e. Teixiera got 180mm, Boras is comparing Matt Holliday to Tex. Matt Holliday isn’t getting offers any where nears that, he only has 1 offer so far from the Cards, and that’s not even half of what Tex got.
This year the mkt is tight. I think what bothers me with you is not appreciating Halladay CHOSE to forgo FA next year, and sign for a price he thought was fair, with no postseason experience, and one he could live with. He knows his worth, can’t you just be happy he came to Philly?
I’m more concerned with the other pitchers who have a WS, ring and 2 pennants, and postseason experience not having a problem with his big contract. http://www.mlbcontracts.blogspot.com
How will Hamels take his 3yrs 20.5mm, or 6.83mm yearly with 2 pennants, a ring, and WS MVP?
You see Mike the Yankees didn’t win for 8 yrs, because they didn’t have TEAM chemistry,there were some great players the last 8 yrs, but they had a bunch of mercenary legacy players, that focused on their own stats, and not the team.
……And another thing take the time to read, and comprehend my post, before you jump to conclusions. I’ve been the one Defending Halladay as not being CHEAP!!
Nobody on the team in 2011 makes more than him per annum, even Ryan Howard will come in second. Just hope it works.
December 29th, 2009 at 10:19 am
edit: first sentence meant Halladay, not Holliday.
December 29th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Greg Vaughn Catches Crotch Virus?
December 29th, 2009 at 10:41 am
GVCCV
I agree Hope the players that aren’t making that much don’t let egos get in the way. Having Halladay is a great git, but will it help Howard hit,the bullpen be solid, and the rest of the starting rotation be effective? ,
A few friends of mine are professional scouts. They see the Phillies move of getting Halladay this way.
They dug a hole with one hand by trading Lee, and filled it in with the other hand by signing Halladay. a lateral move.
They tell me in the scouting circles, that the Phillies will win the division, but the pennant is still up for grabs. Had Amaro kept Lee hands down the Phillies were the pennant favorites.
Now this is coming from people who are paid by pro teams to scout. The book Manuel reads and looks at they put together for the teams.
December 29th, 2009 at 10:57 am
“I’m more concerned with the other pitchers who have a WS, ring and 2 pennants, and postseason experience not having a problem with his big contract. http://www.mlbcontracts.blogspot.com
How will Hamels take his 3yrs 20.5mm, or 6.83mm yearly with 2 pennants, a ring, and WS MVP?”
@GVCCV- Players cannot be upset with their contracts because they signed them, they weren’t forced upon them. Hamels makes plenty of money for someone his age. Also, Blanton and Moyer have two pennants and a ring too but I doubt they will be complaining that they aren’t making similar money. This makes no sense at all.
December 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
While I am very happy to have Halladay, I just can not get over the comment from Lee saying he thought he would spend the rest of his career in Philadelphia. After the money the team wasted on Adam Eaton, Jamie Moyer, and now Placido Polanco, they certainly could have found the money to have both Halladay and Lee long term. With Halladay, Lee, and Hamels, the farm system could have stood to be a little depleted!
http://www.phillysportscomplete.com
December 29th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Yes, but Lee would only be here one year!
I think things will really depend on how well the players we traded Lee for turn out in the future. Should they all be busts or Near busts, we will all feel ripped off, but that’s the thing about prospects. NOBODY really knows how they are going to turn out until they get there. Some players prospected to be excellent ended up sucking, and the other way around. So we just have to wait and see how things go. For those concerned about the Lee trade, i’d advise you to closely follow the progress of the players we traded him for over the next few years.
December 29th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Well, looks like the Mets signing Jason Bay is just about official now. He’s a good player and all, but it probably won’t make much difference if the team around him stays sucky and/or injured. Even still, this does make the Mets potentially more dangerous this coming season…
December 29th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
Bay has a shoulder issue, the reason for Boston’s caution. What’s funny is he didn’t want to play in queens, but the money called, bwahahah!
December 29th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Money seems to lure good players to crappy teams, that they wouldn’t otherwise even consider!
December 29th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
@GVCCV (really, what does that stand for?)
I have read all of your posts very carefully. I think I’ve addressed all of your points comprehensively. I would argue that the market hasn’t changed that much at all from where it was last year. Of course Boras is comparing Holliday to Tex. Holliday is Boras’s client, and Boras is doing his best to get Holliday a Tex-sized contract. The reason that Holliday hasn’t gotten this kind of deal is that, in reality, Holliday isn’t nearly as good as Tex. Tex is one of the best fielding 1st basemen in the game, and he can hit for power and for average. Holliday blew the Cards’ chances in the NLDS with a boneheaded defensive play, and during his time in the AL last year, his numbers were waaaaay down. They’re not the same caliber of player, as much as Boras would like to claim they are.
I’m thrilled that Halladay is in Philly. I’m pretty sure that was clear in my previous posts. My point is that the Phils would not have been able to sign Halladay or Lee long-term on the open market, as they would have received huge offers from the Yankees and the Sox. Therefore, I’m thrilled that the Phils were aggressive and made sure that they would have an ace long-term.
Yes, this contract is a bargain, and yes, the Phils signed him on the cheap (not only in cash, but also in years). Halladay could have received much more on the open market. He chose to forgo this opportunity because he wanted to leave Toronto for a contender ASAP, leaving the Phils in a very strong negotiating position. Halladay was faced with a choice: another year of purgatory in Toronto, or sign a deal to come to his top choice at a somewhat discounted rate. I don’t think it’s patronizing at all to suggest that the Phils got a bargain in this deal. On the contrary, I think that both parties got exactly what they wanted. Halladay got to a contender, and the Phils got an ace at a discount price.
I think your attitudes here are a tad contradictory. On the one hand, you insist that Halladay’s deal isn’t cheap or a bargain, because you think it’s insulting to the player to suggest that he’s being paid less than he’s worth. On the other hand, you have been harping on how the Yankees only sign players for what they think they’re worth, so they’d never offer a comparable deal for Halladay. You even go so far as to compare Halladay’s situation to Andy Pettitte’s situation, which is downright baffling. At the end of this contract, you might make this kind of comparison, but right now, it’s not appropriate.
You keep bringing up the Yankees, but instead, let’s talk about what has made the Phils so successful over the past few years. In addition to drafting players that formed a strong core with good locker room chemistry, they’ve been extremely aggressive in going after the players that they want in free agency and in trades. We saw this with the Lidge and Lee trades, and we saw this with the Polanco and Ibanez pickups. They identify the best player to fit their needs, and they do everything necessary to get that player on the squad. In the end, they needed to find an ace who they could sign long-term at a bargain rate. They identified a player who could fill that role in Halladay–as he’d sign a discount deal to get out of Toronto–and they did what they had to do to make it happen. So far, the strategy has worked, and I expect that it will work in this case, too.
This whole discussion started because you said that the deal was market value, and I said that it was below market value. I’ve done my best to convince you that the contract was below market value. After this year, he could have signed a contract for 5 years (maybe 6) guaranteed at around $23M per year. Instead, after this year, he’s going to get 3 years guaranteed at $20M per year. If you’re not sold on viewing this as a “bargain,” I’m not sure what else I can do. As someone mentioned earlier (I think it was in this thread), trying to convince someone you’re right over the internet is a proven sign of stupidity. I guess that, even though my approach to this is right on, I’m still the one wearing the dunce cap.
December 29th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
@Bearded Champions
I agree with you on Bay. Until the Mets do something to patch up their rotation, which is just awful after Santana, I’m not sure that all of the outfield help in the world could save them from another poor performance. Though, to be fair, they really, REALLY needed outfield help.
I wonder how Bay’s hitting stats will be affected by the ridiculous dimensions of ShittyBank Park.
December 29th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
You know, I thought about this a bit more, and I sold Holliday a little short. I was reading up on a bit, and found this helpful article on fangraphs:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/holliday-vs-teixeira/
He argues that even though Holliday has a higher WAR than Tex, Tex belongs in a higher tier than Holliday. Still, he treats the comparison a little more seriously than I did, and that’s probably fair.
December 29th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
too many words.
December 29th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
My bad. Many apologies.
December 29th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
one day, without warning, im going to type the longest post in Fightins history.
December 29th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
mike p
have at it, I’m done!
December 29th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Honestly, Jason Bay is a guy I had been hoping to see with the Phils at some point…but our outfield is pretty much set for the time being, and we also have a lot of quality OF prospects to take over once our current guys get traded or possibly retire(Ibanez probably doesn’t have too many years left for any team,so I wouldn’t be surprised if he retired with the Phillies).
December 30th, 2009 at 7:04 am
RIP Jason Bay’s career! Any more old White Sox bench players we can sign?
December 30th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
@Mike P: great points all around. Although one I disagree with. I dont think Roy forced his way out of Toronto. They wanted to maximize his value and get prospects because they werent going to sign him. They need to rebuild and shed contracts. Rios is gone. Roy is gone. They are unable to trade Wells, so they will ride it out with him and try to trade him in the last year of his deal. which I think is in 2 years.
December 31st, 2009 at 11:30 am
I just read Mrs. H’s actual quote. The second part was “He just kept it warm until we got here right?” THAT is a little obnoxious and disrespectful. Regardless of what your opinion is on the Lee trade, I think we can all agree Cliff did a little more than that.
December 31st, 2009 at 6:03 pm
The whole quote by Mrs Halladay is out of place. Until Roy delivers a WS win SHUT UP!!
December 31st, 2009 at 6:16 pm
If I was Roy I’d put one of those electric collars around my wife’s neck (covered in diamonds so noone would really notice) and every time she spoke I’d zap the shit outta her.
December 31st, 2009 at 6:18 pm
If I was Roy I’d divorce my wife and fuck porn stars all day.
December 31st, 2009 at 6:18 pm
If I was Roy I’d stick my 20 million dollar a year penis up his wife’s nostril that she’s picking in that picture.
December 31st, 2009 at 6:19 pm
If I was Roy I wouldn’t go watch a Sixers game.
December 31st, 2009 at 6:20 pm
If I was Roy I’d try out for the Sixers team. I’m pretty sure he has a good chance of making it.